tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post7593273620049606427..comments2022-10-23T00:32:21.496-07:00Comments on JGBernasSJ Blogs: FUROR OVER ALABANG ORDINANCEFather Bernas Blogshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06485358661393132559noreply@blogger.comBlogger109125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-87410338165571929912011-05-24T00:03:23.403-07:002011-05-24T00:03:23.403-07:00bottomline....
There is and must be a clear Seper...bottomline....<br /><br />There is and must be a clear Seperation of the Church and State on this matter for it to be decided fairly...<br /><br />father Bernas is not against the Church teachings.... what he sees is that there should be and will be Separation of CHurch and State on this matter...<br /><br />Because it beyond religion or moral, but a right of each individual in regards to reproductive health....mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11888217127375272762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-85151697657690666592011-03-25T12:20:34.634-07:002011-03-25T12:20:34.634-07:00The case that Father B quoted as being unconstitut...The case that Father B quoted as being unconstitutional (fifty dollars fine) is Griswold vs. Connecticut. And yes, they have similarities, indeed.Kristinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129062261509107717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-37951395988473088062011-03-22T21:33:21.222-07:002011-03-22T21:33:21.222-07:00Better to read this: What can and can't be Imp...Better to read this: <a href="http://catholicposition.blogspot.com/2011/03/what-can-and-cant-be-imposed-against.html" rel="nofollow">What can and can't be Imposed against another’s Conscience</a>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09653824896541786401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-10384883151032068082011-03-15T09:07:04.975-07:002011-03-15T09:07:04.975-07:00@ sarah
Thankfully, not all Catholics are like Arn...@ sarah<br />Thankfully, not all Catholics are like Arnold and the current Ayala Alabang barangay officials. Also, not all priests in the Catholic hierarchy fit your description. I know other priests who share similar views with Fr. Bernas and are not afraid of rational thinking.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05360578156731243174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-24421843219123382622011-03-15T08:53:40.758-07:002011-03-15T08:53:40.758-07:00@ arnold
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In what way would your statement above ...@ arnold<br />-<br />In what way would your statement above differ from gays and lesbians telling striahgt people which, btw, far outnbumber them, "Please don't impose your heterosexual ways on other people"?<br /><br />Funny, isn't it?<br />-<br />Yep, there's not a single difference indeed. I honestly don't see what's so funny about the idea though - the only funny thing is that you're exhibiting how narrow-minded you are by seeing this idea as a "funny" idea.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05360578156731243174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-76612375447481095632011-03-15T08:50:01.273-07:002011-03-15T08:50:01.273-07:00@ gbd
Well, the FDA has not been requiring prescri...@ gbd<br />Well, the FDA has not been requiring prescriptions for condoms, have they? This, I think, makes it safe to assume that they are not on their list. Otherwise, condoms would need prescriptions. The only other possibility is that the law is not being implemented. If this is the case, I think you are very welcome as a citizen to speak against the failure in implementing this law. <br /><br />I also agree that the Barangay has every right to implement RA5921. Making an almost redundant law that makes the barangay officials at par with the FDA in doing the task of classifying drugs that require prescriptions is a different story altogether.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05360578156731243174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-80203652994532489302011-03-15T06:57:51.887-07:002011-03-15T06:57:51.887-07:00@arnold. Ha! You just failed the test! Opposition ...@arnold. Ha! You just failed the test! Opposition to the RH Bill is tantamount to denying people the basic right to education and information on reproductive health ... and thus perpetuating the prevalence of poor decisions (on family size) and the cycle of poverty in the country. <br /><br />You also failed to get that I do not plead for myself (duh!) ... if I may say, I know a lot more than you think, and it is NOT all from the internet. =D<br /><br />So for your sake, I will be explicit: the Catholic Bishop's opposition to the RH Bill is a clear refusal to empower people with (RH) education and information ... because they fear they will lose influence, they fear they will lose power. Independent, critical minds are the seeds of growth and prosperity, but to the Catholic heirarchy, its only a big worry; it is but a threat. In the meantime, the Bishops and those like you who kowtow to them ... make sure that that you are free of the burden of such ignorance ... by arming yourself with the same knowledge you wish to deny to everyone else. Concomitantly, you instill fear of 'sin' to many and simply leave the poor to bear the unpalatable consequences of poor education and ignorance: poverty. I guess the Bishops get what you want: Control ... Influence ... Power!!! ... but is that all that matters to them??? And what about you? do you not care?<br /><br />To me, nothing can be more self-serving and non-Catholic than that! ... and at what cost!!! My goodness!<br /><br />That you failed the test ... only means you badly need to think outside the box. That will be steep, but you gotta try for your own sake!<br /><br />Professor Sarahsarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02890597035532639925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-52483768315535535902011-03-15T03:37:27.480-07:002011-03-15T03:37:27.480-07:00Against the ordinance and from Alabang. Let peopl...Against the ordinance and from Alabang. Let people decide for themselves whether they want to go to hell or not.evaengineeredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13208736003425656172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-87481988057894230242011-03-15T01:10:42.703-07:002011-03-15T01:10:42.703-07:00arnold, are you saying its okay to impose your fai...arnold, are you saying its okay to impose your faith on other people? what if they disagree? can you walk on water to prove your right because communism do somehow work in china you know...and gays eat hate and breathe scorn to the point of dying to simplify the seemingly bewildered view of others about their life when they can just pretend to be straight. heterosexuals do outnumber them which also means the former outnumber them in rape statistics and abuses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-71042017748376736592011-03-14T21:02:08.709-07:002011-03-14T21:02:08.709-07:00Just want to answer Muwu above and state that the ...Just want to answer Muwu above and state that the pills are abortifacient. They have lowered the levels of estrogen which allows break through ovulation. This means that if the egg is fertilized and the embryo now tries to attach to the wall of the uterus, it will be aborted because the embryo cannot attack to the uterine lining due to the thinner lining due to the progesterone the pill manufacturers added to compensate for the lower levels of estrogen-which in higher doses causes clots,strokes, etc. If the embryo cannot attach to the uterine wall, it is now lost in the woman's menses and is in essence, aborted. The pill is an abortifacient. The IUDS are also abortifacient.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-71647373556557686412011-03-14T20:25:09.285-07:002011-03-14T20:25:09.285-07:00Some more points:
1. Bec of too much issues arisin...Some more points:<br />1. Bec of too much issues arising from this bill, it is better to structure it such that important points are well tackled. I hope we can have a leader (either in Congress, Senate, Judicial, or Executive) that can help clear things up - can give country direction. and also the Media, hope they can really enlighten people and not just sensationalize the issues. I jst observed that while they put this blog as news, the subsequent insights of Fr Bernas were not (issues arising from the Rh Bill), and Religious Freedom (and the confusion re: Separation of Church and State - which a lot of anti-church people are using but whose interpretation as Fr Bernas has noted, is wrong. It is a guide more for the State not to interfere with Church and NOT Suppression of Opinion of Church to the State)<br /><br />2.While Fr Bernas is sober when it comes to his criticism of the RH Bill, i find his analogy of the ordinance as reminiscent of the Inquisition, and his sweeping statements of one church sector as instrumentalizing state laws to advance its cause rather harsh.JChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04997632391754625398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-22877301718911488152011-03-14T19:54:45.683-07:002011-03-14T19:54:45.683-07:00Some points here:
1. The Bgy AAV Should definitely...Some points here:<br />1. The Bgy AAV Should definitely consider , being one of the framers of the constitution, Fr Bernas' opinion Re: AAV Ordinance, so that the ordinance would be constitutionally sound<br />2. However, it is also worth noting Fr Bernas' comments on the RH Bill and pro-RH supporters should seriously consider the danger the current RH bill entail. See Fr Bernas' previous blogpost<br />3. I however would differ with Fr Bernas' opinion that the AAV Ordinance is an attempt to impose Catholic beliefs and instrumentalize the State to advance this cause. I dont see any oppression of the minority in this bill. Protection of the Unborn is, in my Opinion, a Common Good and the AAV Ordinance is a Pro-active Measure to implement it, though the rightful application of applicable laws should be considered. And knowing too that the Fundamental Problem of Not being able to protect the Unborn can be a result of Irresponsible Sexual Lifestyle,<br />thus the need to reinforce a change in Behaviour and getting sound medical advice, which in my opinion can be addressed by having a prescription first. This helps people get educated knowing that condoms can have up to 18% failure rate and can't really protect people from ALL STDs (though this is not the focus of the Ordinance but still impt)<br />Note too that we can also say the same thing for those who are pushing for the RH Bill. In my opinion, RH Bill supporters may have several motivations why they support the bill. Take note that their primary reasons has changed from Population Control to Reproductive Health to Responsible Parenthood to Maternal Health (take note of their battlecry these days - several deaths due to maternity"). Common of which is the advancement of the Sex Education Agenda, and the Free Distribution of Contraceptives. They can also be accused of "imposing their liberal beliefs" towards the Majority. Although they will defend that you are free to "choose" but there are severe penalties for those who will "maliciously, and willfully withhold "reproductive services". this is a serious case and it seems to me, oppressive of the Catholic majority.<br />4. I think Fr Bernas is speaking more as a Constitutionalist/Legal Expert here thus lends his opinions looking at the Ordinance through the eyes of our Existing Laws and Constitution, but whether it (Present Constitution/Law and its Principles) is working or not for the Philippines is another issue.<br />5. Of course the Constitution is one important consideration in crafting laws/ordinances, but apart from it we should also consider Effective Governance/Leadership Strategies and Methods so as to craft laws that are really effective in addressing the Problem. <br /> Important Points to consider here: (for both AAV Ordinance and RH Bill)<br />- will it introduce positive impact on its constituents? (being more responsible, etc)<br />- will it Really work and solve the problem being addressed? Is it focused enough? think of Western countries who have Sex Education and Distribution of Contraceptives part of their Family planning. did it work? think of Uganda and other African countries which addressed their HIV/AIDS Problem (this might not be part of the current RH Bill, but the point is to learn how they crafted effective laws and governance strategies from them)<br />Consider too Sweden and other euro countries how they dealt with Maternal Mortality - by increasing number of midwives and improvement of access to better maternal health care services. if we apply this here, this can be a very good job employment opportunity too. are there effective model programs in other countries which we can follow?<br />- what will be the Cost-Benefits of implementing it? <br />- does it advance the CommonGood? Does it Oppress the Minority?<br />- should it be a Priority Now?JChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04997632391754625398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-74740535560574653622011-03-14T17:12:57.580-07:002011-03-14T17:12:57.580-07:00My suggestion: pass the RH bill but limit its bene...My suggestion: pass the RH bill but limit its benefits to non-Catholics. Same with the divorce bill. Give Catholics the freedom of choice to obey their priests or not, or stick to their miserable marriages or not. Let's see how well the Church can herd its flock or its moonlighting priests.<br /><br />I made my choice a long time ago with my feet. I encourage other like-minded people to do the same.Norman Sisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07419676021571714058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-74617488883049217182011-03-14T15:25:57.665-07:002011-03-14T15:25:57.665-07:00Fr. Bernas. Please answer this:
(1) Are you sayin...Fr. Bernas. Please answer this:<br /><br />(1) Are you saying that man is bound to follow his conscience at all times and cannot be forced to act contrary to it?<br /><br />(2) Are ypiu saying that Vatican II, through Dignitatis Humanae, teaches the primacy of conscience over the demands of objective truth and the teachings of the Church?<br /><br />(3) Are you saying, then,that man has a moral right to be wrong? Really now, is this what the Council meant by freedom from force? <br /><br />(4) Are you saying that Vatican II mean that man’s conscience is autonomous and that man is free from the moral obligation to conform to the authority of the magisterium of the Church? <br /><br />Fr. Bernas, you're a priest. I'm not. But please try to address my questions head on. You have years of study on theology, something I don't have. Surely, I'm a push over? but please DO answer my questions.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871942117944467817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-2402763600309362112011-03-14T15:23:41.166-07:002011-03-14T15:23:41.166-07:00// I am also against imposing my faith on other pe...// I am also against imposing my faith on other people. //<br /><br />Paolo, please tell me: in what way does your statement above differ from that of, say, the NDF saying "Please don't impose your ideology on other people"?<br /><br />In what way would your statement above differ from gays and lesbians telling striahgt people which, btw, far outnbumber them, "Please don't impose your heterosexual ways on other people"?<br /><br />Funny, isn't it?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871942117944467817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-14485174535906205002011-03-14T15:19:26.245-07:002011-03-14T15:19:26.245-07:00//OK then, so why not educate me and give me infor...//OK then, so why not educate me and give me information I need ... ergo, the RH Bill.//<br /><br />Sarah, it's all over the Internet, andall youhavew to do is help yourself to it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871942117944467817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-81276333767415149552011-03-14T12:45:15.679-07:002011-03-14T12:45:15.679-07:00@paolo
how do you know that condoms arent classif...@paolo<br /><br />how do you know that condoms arent classified by fda as contraceptives?<br /><br />i tried looking for a list. i couldnt find any online. there might be a list SOMEWHERE. having said that, the WHO HAS a list, and it condoms in it. this implies (strongly), that if FDA had a list, it would include condoms in it.<br /><br />if there is NO LIST AT ALL, thats a problem too. making that list is part of their job as regulators. <br /><br />_____________<br />" Instead, the solution would be to push for RA5921 to be implemented at a national level " -- I 100% agree, and this can START with barangays pushing for it to happen. ultimately, the national agencies should start implementing this (as well as other neglected laws).<br /><br />if people dont like this law, the legislature can/should deal with it. thats THEIR JOB.gbdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011266801179689224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-56928440457497445962011-03-14T11:05:15.883-07:002011-03-14T11:05:15.883-07:00@ gbd (continuation)
Moreover, if you firmly beli...@ gbd (continuation)<br /><br />Moreover, if you firmly believe that RA5921 is simply being neglected, there is no reason to make a new law. Instead, the solution would be to push for RA5921 to be implemented at a national level - not to make a redundant one at the barangay level that clashes with other national laws.<br /><br />Anyway, the Muntinlupa City Government has released another statement on the matter: http://adhor.tumblr.com/post/3856456233/ayala-alabang-ordinance-finally-declared-illegal-by-theUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05360578156731243174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-47635663336022366622011-03-14T11:01:38.065-07:002011-03-14T11:01:38.065-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05360578156731243174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-32887743393416972632011-03-14T11:01:05.311-07:002011-03-14T11:01:05.311-07:00@ gbd
What part of "as classified" don&...@ gbd<br /><br />What part of "as classified" don't you understand? What part of the section makes you think that the WHO or the "common understanding" should be synonymous with the FDA's classification? Has it ever occurred to you that the Pharmaceutical Law was not made to prevent contraceptives and abortifacients from being sold freely, but rather, to prevent only those that can potentially harm its users from being sold freely? Perhaps you should read beyond Mr. Luis Sison's favorite section to see what I mean. It will show you the bigger picture, the context of the section, and the reason as to why the FDA is tasked to be the sole classifying body for the contraceptives and abortifacients that will require prescriptions.<br /><br />Now if you have problems with the FDA not classifying condoms in their list, go to them and complain to them. Fr. Bernas and all others are just stating the facts, and the fact is that the barangay has no right to classify these drugs, chemicals, and devices as they did with the ordinance.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05360578156731243174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-58711626802448822882011-03-14T10:37:38.575-07:002011-03-14T10:37:38.575-07:00Now that's a contraceptive I'm interested ...Now that's a contraceptive I'm interested in banning, Ipat Luna :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-35920507589838907332011-03-14T10:07:30.066-07:002011-03-14T10:07:30.066-07:00Norby,it's been FDA since RA 9711. And the do...Norby,it's been FDA since RA 9711. And the dollar reference was of a decision of unconstitutionality, not necessarily here in the Philippines.<br /><br />Agree with Glenn Tuazon, completely. I don't agree with what the government spends on all the time, doesn't make the spending unconstitutional. So the anti-RH folks should just deal with it.<br /><br />Guys, train your guns on tobacco instead!! Kills 240 Pinoys a day and causes impotence!! Most preventable cause of death. Imagine the lives you will have saved if all this Catholic zeal was brought to bear on Big Tobacco.Ipat Lunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17553030941885658102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-91238530693923408272011-03-14T09:50:56.310-07:002011-03-14T09:50:56.310-07:00@paolo, father bernas,
there is an expectation ...@paolo, father bernas,<br /><br /><br /><br />there is an expectation that the bfad/fda has classified the condom as a contraceptive device. the who has done so. there is a common understanding that IT IS a contraceptive device.<br /><br />IF it HASNT, then that should give u pause too.<br /><br />WHY didnt it classify it as a contraceptive, when that is one of its accepted, commonly known uses? <br /><br />the occam's razor argument is that they simply didnt know the existence/relevance of the pharmacy law as it relates to contraceptives.<br /><br /><br />moreover, the WHO classifies condoms as contraceptives too. it should give us pause when the fda/bfad doesnt (or fails to!)gbdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011266801179689224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-4859768214013600252011-03-14T09:50:31.798-07:002011-03-14T09:50:31.798-07:00To Catholics: If you think contraception is evil, ...To Catholics: If you think contraception is evil, then DON'T practise it. Or don't have sex. No one is forcing you to.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08567796799020686665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1995978809185173431.post-59021808010350967712011-03-14T06:17:48.118-07:002011-03-14T06:17:48.118-07:00@Rosseau. you said it best: "It is funny how ...@Rosseau. you said it best: "It is funny how dissent and discussion inspire much vitriol from purported guardians of the faith. ... Axing everyone who voices a different opinion may well render the churches empty and silent... "<br /><br />Lamentable. <br /><br />What comes to mind are dictators and robots. These do not equate to any sense of freedom. <br /><br />For all the education and intelligence we have as a people (Catholic Bishops included), I cannot understand why there is NO FAITH in letting the individual choose & make decisions for him/herself. Let me choose. Please! Please do not tell me what to decide for myself! Besides, what makes your choice/beliefs better than mine? You say I dont have enough education and information to make the best decision for myself? OK then, so why not educate me and give me information I need ... ergo, the RH Bill.<br /><br />Additionally, I dont get the Catholic heirarchy's compulsion to intervene or regulate personal/moral decisions. I sense great fear and severe insecurity.<br /><br />Finally, BRAVO to Fr Bernas. Thank you for your courage to dissent, for the inspiration to think for myself and for the display of selfless leadership. There certainly is hope within the ranks! Great!sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02890597035532639925noreply@blogger.com